By: davidstipek (offline)  Wednesday, 28 August 2013 @ 06:48 PM ICT (Read 4664 times)  

I need to boost either AC Volts output of Charging coil or raise wattage. 12VDC available @ Battery at idle is lest then 11.8 VDC and @ 5000 RPM 12.4 VDC. But issue is bike is ridden in city traffic, nowhere near 5000RPM!

I have a complete spare stator plate and coils (See attached picture). The Charge/Lighting coil is burnt so I can replace it. Now all I want is charging as 12VAC only goes to rectifier, all Lighting on Bike is 12VDC.

Question I have is (I have room to do this!):

1: Can I wrap 3 coils as 650 Suzuki is. Tieing one end of each coil together @ one end the other three ends to a yellow lead and use a 7 wire R/R? Yes or No?

2: If yes is the common end of these coils "Floated" Or is it grounded I cannot tell from 650 Suzuki Wiring Diagram.

3: Can I layer them 1, 2, 3... or can I do them side/by/side either using original coil frame. I have room for three 60-70' 20ga coils or three 50-60' 18ga.

4: If I do this coils should be wrapped (Example) CW, next CCW, next CW ??

Right now the only way I can get Bike to charge is to run it @ 5000 RPM in 2nd gear, or get out on the Super and let her Rip in 4th ( Or not go far from home/charger) For common Knowledge Battery is new 12VDC 5Ma Gel, Starter is new as is relay. All electical connectors on bike are soldered as well as each plug has new insides (male/female connectors) all grounds I have 3 frame grounds are soldered and locked if connectors are used. frame is new steel... no rust! I learned from my Yamaha the hard way!

I want 12-13.5VDC at 1500and up. Regulator can dump the excess.

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David

   

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By: Flying Squirrel (offline)  Thursday, 29 August 2013 @ 02:23 PM ICT  

David,

Could it be that the magnets in the rotor are weak? I dabble in small electric motors (slot cars) and some of the old motors get down on power because the magnets are weak not because there is anything wrong with the windings.

If the coils are stock and OK just maybe the magnets are getting tired?

What to do if they are I don't know. Well I do they need to re-zapped but where/how?

   

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By: davidstipek (offline)  Saturday, 31 August 2013 @ 01:24 AM ICT  

Quote by: Flying Squirrel

David,

Could it be that the magnets in the rotor are weak? I dabble in small electric motors (slot cars) and some of the old motors get down on power because the magnets are weak not because there is anything wrong with the windings.

If the coils are stock and OK just maybe the magnets are getting tired?

What to do if they are I don't know. Well I do they need to re-zapped but where/how?



Flying S.

Well I took the Rotor and we checked (I guess pulling power) against 2 other Bikes and 1 new unit also tried new Rotor on engine.

Same results as mine. Bike is doing what Suzuki wanted 11.8VDC a little about Idle. Then at 4000 RPM inceases to 12.5V.

Issue is in City Traffic can't charge Battery unles I ride aroud @ 4000 RPM in 2nd gear. News will agree here this will draw the attention of the police as they will think that I don't know how to ride, or can't (don't know how) shift. That will cause Them to call Tourist Police and after about an Hour, maybe my wife... before they dismiss me... whew...ProblemShh

Bike is not putting out the amperage I need to charge. If I increase the size (guage) wire(increase amps), and either lengthen coil wraps(increase voltage). I can increase increase both. But now I don't think the Rc110 Rectifier/ regulator can sustain this.

This is why I wanted to do 3 coils (I can do, have the room) 55-65' 20ga (same size wire) or 45-50' 18ga. The latter would increase both. Using a 7 wire rectifier/regulator would handle excess both. Being it was built for 6 pole/11 pole stators. The 110cc Crystal used a 4 pole (magnet system) So in theory it should create a higher amperage and voltage at a lower rpm. Any excess will be dumped as R/R has dual ground leads and dual power feeds.

Original coil setup as show in picture:<ground>40.5' lighting coil <Soldered to yellow lead and 2nd Coil>23' Charging coil<soldered to White/red stripe lead>.

One power feed connecting with +12VDC at Starter relay (Also fused) and the other to red lead (original) at R/R. This should also kick the Starter...

Basicly I am hoping the SV650 Suzuki wiring on this issue will ease any issues. (see attached files: 1.wiring diagram, 2. stator SV650 diagram, Crystal stator showing burnt coil and the extra room - we wound over 75' of wire to fill coil to a safe max.) I know your going to ask so I came back and added. Spare charging/lighting coil got smoked because I forgot to snip the yellow lead attached to ACV from stator when I made everything on bike 12VDC Smile . My fault, but I have a couple original spares as back-up. Clapping

Flying S. thanks for your input as it was a valid point, but results were ok.

I had been told this was "Old School"... I answered "I don't disagree... I am Old School"Ride On

David


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By: Flying Squirrel (offline)  Saturday, 31 August 2013 @ 12:11 PM ICT  

What is using power when you are riding that drains the battery? What is the current drain at your normal riding or crawling speed? Does the bike stop after x kms because there is no juice in the battery?
Is there no kick start if the problem is starting and not actual running. What is the minimum voltage threshold for starting? The other factor is the gel battery which I believe needs a different charging routine to a conventional lead acid battery.

A sailor knows that when the wind changes you have to change the sails as you cannot change the boat. So the following waffling is more about about riding at higher RPM that solving your problem.
.
Sounds like the system you have is for a two-stroke with no electric starter where the battery is more like a capacitor than a storage device. I don't know what bike it is other than Suzuki but I can't imagine any bikes that produce and usable power at 1500 - 2000rpm. Even modern on scooters the clutch doesn't fully engage until about 1500-1800 rpm which is about x 2.0-2.5 for engine rpm so that would be at least 3000 rpm. So they don't have any power below 3000 rpm and they don't attract attention for that reason. The small 50cc scooter that run up and down sois here are turning more than your 4000 rpm and I could run faster than them.

If I project for a 125 PCX. It has a top speed of about 110 kph at 9300. This is a good because the bike is rev limited so the numbers are known. So in "top" gear it is 84 rpm/k at your 1500-2000 you would only be travelling at 17-23 kph. Their CVT obliviously compensates for this to keep engine in power band. So if you are running at low speed in traffic you have to do manually what the CVT does and keep the engine in the power band so that the generator can operate as designed.

While I am by nature an optimist I don't think you will find anything of the shelf that fits your requirements. Good luck with your hobby.

   

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By: davidstipek (offline)  Sunday, 01 September 2013 @ 04:39 PM ICT  

Quote by: Flying Squirrel

What is using power when you are riding that drains the battery? What is the current drain at your normal riding or crawling speed? Does the bike stop after x kms because there is no juice in the battery?
Is there no kick start if the problem is starting and not actual running. What is the minimum voltage threshold for starting? The other factor is the gel battery which I believe needs a different charging routine to a conventional lead acid battery.

A sailor knows that when the wind changes you have to change the sails as you cannot change the boat. So the following waffling is more about about riding at higher RPM that solving your problem.
.
Sounds like the system you have is for a two-stroke with no electric starter where the battery is more like a capacitor than a storage device. I don't know what bike it is other than Suzuki but I can't imagine any bikes that produce and usable power at 1500 - 2000rpm. Even modern on scooters the clutch doesn't fully engage until about 1500-1800 rpm which is about x 2.0-2.5 for engine rpm so that would be at least 3000 rpm. So they don't have any power below 3000 rpm and they don't attract attention for that reason. The small 50cc scooter that run up and down sois here are turning more than your 4000 rpm and I could run faster than them.

If I project for a 125 PCX. It has a top speed of about 110 kph at 9300. This is a good because the bike is rev limited so the numbers are known. So in "top" gear it is 84 rpm/k at your 1500-2000 you would only be travelling at 17-23 kph. Their CVT obliviously compensates for this to keep engine in power band. So if you are running at low speed in traffic you have to do manually what the CVT does and keep the engine in the power band so that the generator can operate as designed.

While I am by nature an optimist I don't think you will find anything of the shelf that fits your requirements. Good luck with your hobby.



Flying S.

I will try to answer each question in order you presented them, ok?Smile

Okay, Bike has normal lighting as on Original Suzuki Crystal Dash lights (6w x4) neutral (6w x1) light or gear indicator(1.7w) lights. Tail light LED (1 x 3W) Brake lights (5 x 3w). This is all that comes on with ignition on! Headlight is 25w/25W and switched. High beam indicator light (1 x 1.7w).
I will charge Battery to point of being dowm to 1/2 Ah on charger. What say 98.5% charged? turn key on and start engine. battery voltage is 12.4-5 VDC. Okay I let engine warm up and remove battery cables from battery... output from Rectifier is 11.4 VDC if I rev engine up I can get 11.8 - 12.2 VDC.

This is why I started to rewrap Charging /Lighting coil (since coil only now serves ACV to Rectifier/Regulator) in 18ga wire instead of 20ga. float ground and use at Rectifier, wrap 3 coils (I have the room) 40-50' and tie each to yellow lead from new 7 wire R/R. New R/R gives me dual ground leads and Dual Power feeds, 1 connecting to original red connection which is fused on way to battery. The other going to battery feed at Starter Relay and is fused. (#10 wire here) this should as Suzuki had implied with making this change induce more Ah directly to starter and add a second feed to charge battery as wire from relay to battery is #8 or #6 wire...

This Rectifier along with increased Wattage created (x 3) with increase wattage to battery @ lower RPM... This is like going from teaspoon to Ladle with input. Teaspoon of power @ same RPM as designed... Or a Ladle full... I think I will get fuller, quicker... Even on same input rate... What do yo think here?

Even 7 wire R/R can handle over charge @ stock input rates for the Suzuki Crystal RC110Y engine. All I have done is make Higher wattage available @ enable to be fed to Battery at a reasonable, steady rate. So in theory I should return with bttery @ same level of charge as it was when we left.

Also speeds you are quoteing are way off. Bike does 84-85 Kph in 4th gear @ 7000 rpm ( gearing here is 19/20) in 3rd it will accelerate past this to 90-93 KPH @ 7300 because of Gearing and the 18" tire/rim. Final gearing is 15t/35t... Redline is originally 7500 rpm. with oversize exhaust and breathing it will torque pass 8500 and still be in power range... (just don't miss a gear... or try to power shift as it does unlead gearing between gears Wink I know what WOT does to create the speed reached and have a program (computer that helped us comensate for wheel size diffeences and final drive gear changes... I need to look @ it again to tell you what speeds in 2nd, 3rd are @ or close to 4000 rpm... Even 1st.... here it is!

David Ride On


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