By: Anonymous: Me ()  Tuesday, 23 October 2012 @ 09:12 PM ICT (Read 23352 times)  

In this thread we compare and contrast the Keeway Dorado250 cruiser Vs Lifan LF250B custom based on first hand experiences and real knowledge only.

I know all about the Lifan but want yall to tell me about the Keeway. Where is the thing made? Where is the dealer in Chian Mai? How much is it selling for? Is it available in colors other than black? And if you have owned one please tell me all about your experience. If they have them in Chain Mai I will try to test drive one in a couple of weeks.

A year ago I had a Lifan LF250B custom. I went on a nation wide odyssey of 4 dealers to buy it, the cheapest I could get was 73000 in Rayong but I ended up buying for 75000 in Pram Buri because they were the only place that had it in purple. Overall I loved the bike, it was supper cheap because it was made in Thailand, is nice and comfortable with plenty of power and torque by Thai standards and it looked beautiful and got a lot of complements on appearance (I cant stress enough how much the purple and gold paint job contributed to that) it was also very economical. Despite the fact that various things would start falling of the bike and breaking after a year or two I could just tell the engine and transmission were bullet prof and would go on forever.

On the down side the suspension was way too soft, the brakes were spongy, it makes a god awful loud beeping sound like a truck reversing every time you turn the indicators on and mine had a problem (I imagine with the carburetor) that caused it to flat spot and even cut out particularly at full open throttle. I have also owned the bike that both these wish they were the Yamaha Virago 250 and the Lifan could not match the overall quality fit, finish, materials and tight feel of the Yamaha. Mine already had tiny rust spots after 3 months.

Now I want to buy another cheap V twin cruiser and have narrowed the field to the Lifan and the Keeway Dorado 250 cruiser,

Specs are below but the main differences I have noticed in favor of the Lifan are
Lifan is cheaper ~75000 rather than ~95000 for Keeway
Lifan has more torque 19N.m/6000r/min rather than 14 NM / 9450 r / min for Keeway
Lifan is lighter @ 152kg rather than 172 kg for Keeway

the main differences I have noticed in favor of the Keeway are
Keway higher listed top speed of 115 kph rather than 100 kph for Lifan (though I got mine up to 130 kph)
Wind shield
Saddle bags (these are optional extra on lifan)
Large foot rest pads
Front and rear discs rather than rear drum on Lifan
Keeway has much more stylish rims

Technical KeeWay Dorado 250.
Engine 4-stroke 2-cylinder V.
Displacement. 249 cc.
Compression ratio. 9.4: 1.
Torque. 14 NM / 9450 r / min.
Dimensions (W x L x H). 2300 x 762 x 1145 mm.
Wheel spacing. 1550 mm.
Cooling system. Air
Ignition. CDI.
Brakes. Front disc / rear.
Starter. Power.
Wheel size. 110/90 - 16.
Wheel size. 120/90 - 16.
The capacity of the fuel tank. 14 liters.
Weight. 172 kilograms.
Battery 12V 6AH.

Motorcycle model: LF250-B(Lifan 250)
Dimension ((L×B×H mm): 2250*780*1140
Wheel base (mm):1495
Min.Ground Clearance (mm): 150
Dry Weight: 152kg
Height Of Seat (mm): 670
Fuel Tank Capacity(L): 14
Engine Type: double-cylinder, air-cooled,four-stroke
Engine model: 2V49FMM
Bore×Stroke: 49mm*66mm
Displacement: 248.9ml
Maximum Net Power 13kw/8000r/min
Maximum Torque: 19N.m/6000r/min
Clutch: Wet multi-plate
Lubrication: Pressure/splash
Start: Electric start
Ignition: T.C.I
Transmission: 5 gear
Max. Speed (km/h): 100km/h
Economical Fuel Consumption (l/100km): ≤2.4L/100km
Front Type Size and Air Pressure: 3.00-18/200KPa
Rear Type Size and Air Pressure: 5.00-15/225KPa
Climbing Ability (°): ≥20°
Exhaust Index: CO≤3.8%;HC≤800ppm
Start Performance: ≤15s
Braking system (front/rear): disk/drum
Brake Performance: ≤7m/30km/h


By: news (offline)  Tuesday, 23 October 2012 @ 11:27 PM ICT  

The best way to compare two motorcycle is to compare them with the specification found in the user manual. For both the Lifan LF250-B and the Keeway Dorado 250 cruiser we have the English user manual, you can find them here Lifan LF250-B English Manual and the Keeway Dorado 250 English manual.

If you look at the different websites you would really think that the Lifan LF250-B and the Keeway Dorado 250 have much different engines. The truth is that the two engines are not much different, the rumor is even that Lifan makes the engines for Keeway... You can use a Lifan cylinder to repair a Keeway and visa-versa, of course that doesn't say much about who is making the engine as you can also use a Lifan cylinder to replace the cylinder on a Yamaha Virago 250.

To be honest, I know that Keeway is more than capable to produce its own engines, but on the other hand Lifan is one of the worlds largest motorcycle engine suppliers (to be one of the biggest engine suppliers you need to sell engines to somebody, right).

To keep this post a bit short I can say that the Lifan and Keeway have the exact same 'engine' specs and therefore also the same engine performance as the Yamaha V-Star 250 (www.starmotorcycles.com/star/products/modelspecs/589/0/specs.aspx)

Currently the price of the Lifan and the Keeway are very similar... The biggest difference between the two is that Keeway offers 3-year warranty, and Lifan has 2-years warranty for its motorcycles in Thailand.

   

news


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By: Flying Squirrel (offline)  Wednesday, 24 October 2012 @ 11:24 AM ICT  

I'm not a cruiser gut but the Keeway looks better to me. The pipes are better looking etc. But this needs closer inspection because I have seen a V-Twin in a showroom and the exhaust exiting the rear cylinder is hidden under a chrome cover. Oh it looks all cool and large but under the cover is a small diameter piece of manky mitred welded pipe that would not pass Briggs and Stratton's lawn mover QA inspection.

Is that worth the extra 20,000 baht?

The Lifan has a larger front, smaller rear tire set up which may be better if you venture occasionally onto gravel roads? Lifan has spoked wheels which are easier to repair if you hit a large pot hole.

Oh and Lifan says more than 100 kph! According to my rough calculations you should get 127 kph which is confirmed by your 130. The windshield on the Keeway may actually help in that regard.

   

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By: news (offline)  Wednesday, 24 October 2012 @ 11:55 AM ICT  

It makes it much easier to talk about something that we can see, so hereby pictures of both motorcycles

Click on image to downloadClick on image to download

The first one is the Keeway Dorado 250 and the second is the Lifan LF250-B

   

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By: Flying Squirrel (offline)  Wednesday, 24 October 2012 @ 12:53 PM ICT  

Quote by: news

It makes it much easier to talk about something that we can see, so hereby pictures of both motorcycles



The first one is the Keeway Dorado 250 and the second is the Lifan LF250-B



The pictures were in the manuals you gave us the links to. I am not his motherYawn

   

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By: Me (offline)  Wednesday, 24 October 2012 @ 01:59 PM ICT  

Thanks for the replies I'm glad to read them


To keep this post a bit short I can say that the Lifan and Keeway have the exact same 'engine' specs and therefore also the same engine performance as the Yamaha V-Star 250
[/p]


The Yamaha compression ratio is 10.0:1 the (Keeway is 9.4: 1) and makes 15.5 kw the (the Lifan makes 13 kw). I would also bet the Yamaha is made from higher quality materials, more reliable, economical and long lasting. But anyway I am not forking out for the import taxes which is why I wonder were the Keeway is made, I read they have a factory in Malaysia and some things from there are imported tax free under ASEAN but most things aren't and if it was assembled here I thought we would know all about it like we do the Lifan factory in Rayong.

Currently the price of the Lifan and the Keeway are very similar... The biggest difference between the two is that Keeway offers 3-year warranty, and Lifan has 2-years warranty for its motorcycles in Thailand.[/p]


Good to know about the warranty but I do consider ~75000 and about ~95000 as a bigger difference but I don't know the real on the ground price of the Keeway can anyone call a dealer to confirm?


Is that worth the extra 20,000 baht?
[/p]


style is subjective the things that may go part of the way to making up the price difference are
Wind shield ~3000
Saddle bags ~2000
Large foot rest pads ~1500
Front and rear discs rather than rear drum on Lifan ~2000
The rest can only be made up by better quality fit, finish, materials and reliability that's what I know nothing about the Keeway until I can test one, I was hoping someone here had.


Lifan has spoked wheels which are easier to repair if you hit a large pot hole.
[/p]


Wait doesn't it mean the Lifan wheels are more likely to warp from the same impact as the Keeway? I just said style is subject but surely general consensus agrees that the Keeway rims look ALOT better.
Cheers, BTW the spam sensor on here is way too sensitive!

   

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By: Me (offline)  Wednesday, 24 October 2012 @ 02:38 PM ICT  

Okay I just called the dealer in Chiang Mai, its near the bus station arcade. The Keeway only exists in black, he does not have one but he has just ordered it and it will be there within 2 weeks and he does not know what the price will be...

   

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By: news (offline)  Wednesday, 24 October 2012 @ 03:03 PM ICT  

Spoked wheels are amazingly flexible, they can absorb great forces without damaging, aluminum alloy wheels are much less flexible and an impact with a pothole can serious damage an alloy wheel, sure you can repair an alloy wheel but only for a few times and as long the problem did not happened on the same location.

For the price I can remember that Keeway Thailand had lowered the price considerably, maybe you need to call them directly, the telephone number is 02-613-9727 (English is maybe a problem so best to let somebody who speaks Thai call).

The Keeway can even be manufactured in China to get low import duty, Thailand and China have a free-trade-agreement which includes motorcycles up to 250cc. To be honest I have no idea where the Keeway is manufactured. I only seen a Keeway Dorado 250 one time and the build quality was very good. Selecting which one is the better choice can be a difficult choice... for some warranty is the most important...

I guess in the end it really comes down on personal preferences which one is the right bike for you....

   

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By: Flying Squirrel (offline)  Wednesday, 24 October 2012 @ 03:08 PM ICT  

The Yamaha compression ratio is 10.0:1 the (Keeway is 9.4: 1)



Usually anything approaching or more than 10:1 indicates that the bike is water cooled. IE Honda Scoopy vs Honda Click.

I would suggest that it is the expected quality of fuel in the target market which the reason for the 9.4:1

   

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By: Me (offline)  Thursday, 25 October 2012 @ 04:02 AM ICT  


Oh and Lifan says more than 100 kph! According to my rough calculations you should get 127 kph which is confirmed by your 130. The windshield on the Keeway may actually help in that regard.
[/p]



Flyingsquirrel how did you do those calculations and what do the calculations give you for the Keeway top speed?

   

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By: Flying Squirrel (offline)  Thursday, 25 October 2012 @ 09:03 AM ICT  

Quote by: Me


Flyingsquirrel how did you do those calculations and what do the calculations give you for the Keeway top speed?



A formula I found a long time ago. It states Top Speed = Constant x (Horsepower ^ 1/3)

Constant for a larger cruiser is given as 30.2. So 18 hp gives, converted to kph, 127

Sport bikes have a different constant so CBR250 with say the same 18hp would be about 138kph

I made a simple spread sheet and have "tested" it against motorcycle top speeds from websites and road tests and it is very close say for Hayabusa.

If Keeway has more or less HP then the result will be different.

17hp would be 124kph, 19hp would be 129 kph.

To compare? A PCX with 11.16 hp is around 115kph which is about right as I have a customer in Pattaya who claims indicated 116 with a little bit more left (According to him). Other PCX riders claim 122 kph so subtract some for speedo error and.....

I surmise this is all condensed from other formulae and is dependent on aerodynamic resistance.

   

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By: Me (offline)  Saturday, 03 November 2012 @ 10:17 PM ICT  

I seen it! So there are actually 2 Keeway dealers in Chiang Mai, one said he will be getting it in in a couple of weeks and the other has one in god awful orange and won’t let me take it for a test drive.

Compared to the lifan it is bigger in every way, looks nicer (but not in orange) and feels better quality. The bags are an optional extra according to this dealer. Obviously I won’t do anything without a test drive so I will wait for the other dealer and hope he obliges.

   

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By: Anonymous: GB ()  Friday, 16 November 2012 @ 03:20 PM ICT  

I just bought a new Keeway 250 Dorado and I have a problem shifting into first gear after stopping. If you pull the clutch and try to shift in to first from neutral it will not always shift. You must pull the clutch a second time then it will engage. I have taken it back to the dealer 5 times and they have never been able to fix the problem. They seem to think having to pull the clutch twice sometimes is no real problem. I believe there must be a problem in the gear box. Has anyone else had this problem on a new bike and what did they do to fix it?

By: Anonymous: Danny ()  Friday, 16 November 2012 @ 03:32 PM ICT  

Quote by: GB

I just bought a new Keeway 250 Dorado and I have a problem shifting into first gear after stopping. If you pull the clutch and try to shift in to first from neutral it will not always shift. You must pull the clutch a second time then it will engage. I have taken it back to the dealer 5 times and they have never been able to fix the problem. They seem to think having to pull the clutch twice sometimes is no real problem. I believe there must be a problem in the gear box. Has anyone else had this problem on a new bike and what did they do to fix it?



Try to adjust the clutch cable that you have a bit more, I once had the same problem and after I almost started to pull hair out of my head I found that if I pulled the clutch fully I only incaged the clutch for 95% which made it nearly impossible to shift into the first gear.... I bit if you roll the bike first so it moves at 2 to 4 km/h you can easily shift into first gear...

By: Flying Squirrel (offline)  Friday, 16 November 2012 @ 03:35 PM ICT  

Answers to a similar question posed about a BMW.

What we all do is pull up on the lever with foot, let out clutch slowly, there will be a clunk, and you are in first.

Becomes automatic after a bit.



Or hold the shifter down and ease the clutch out slowly. Accomplishes the same thing.



...the way I get into gear at a standstill is that I shift into first as I'm pulling in the clutch. That way the shaft is still spinning a little bit from the momentum even though the clutch has just become fully disengaged. It doesn't clunk and now it's second nature.



Sometimes I'll just pushed the bike back lightly with my right foot and it'll go in to gear too.



As others have said - perfectly normal! Let the clutch out and back in, then shift into first within 1/2 second or two while trans shafts are still turning. It will go easily.



Bottom line: the transmission has spun down to a stop and the engagement dogs on the shift collar are not alligned with the holes in the gear you're trying to select. Applying a slight drag to the clutch spins up the transmission just enough to align the dogs and holes.



When mine does that is just let the clutch out a little or don't pull it in as far, and it goes into first.

   

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