By: Geoff P (offline)  Saturday, 16 October 2010 @ 04:41 PM ICT (Read 5604 times)  

Hi,
My Phantom 150cc 2-stroke cuts out after perhaps 20 to 50 Km run. Leaving it for a few minutes to 'cool' results in re-start but then the same will happen again in a few kilometres.

Day-to-day riding, to town and back - maybe 5 or 6 Km each way - causes no problems unless the day is very warm. But I cannot trust the bike to keep going for any longer journey than that.

1/ According to the Temperature gauge, it is NOT overheating: the gauge stays down at the first mark, quarter warm. Once, and once only, on a very hot day the gauge climbed to the halfway mark. On that occasion the engine wasn't 'happy' but it didn't quit before I got home.

2/ The ignition coil has 'failed' (Thai diagnosis) and has been replaced 3 times this year.
3/ Often, the ignition-switch is quite hot to the touch after just a few Km.

I wonder if the "whatever is the modern version of contact-breaker" is closed for too long, allowing excess current through the ignition system, causing overheated coil etc etc?

4/ The carburetor has been stripped-and-cleaned more times than I can count. This has no lasting effect after the first five Km, so I don't think that's the problem.

5/ Honda's local dealer replaced the spark-plug yesterday - I got a whole 2 Km before the engine cut-out. Needless to say, I returned to Honda and asked them to find the problem.

6/ The bike is about ten-years-old and has about 32,500 Km on the clock.

Can anyone help to throw some light on this, please?

Geoff

   

Geoff P



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By: ThaiDesign (offline)  Saturday, 16 October 2010 @ 05:37 PM ICT  

Quote by: Geoff P

Hi,
My Phantom 150cc 2-stroke cuts out after perhaps 20 to 50 Km run. Leaving it for a few minutes to 'cool' results in re-start but then the same will happen again in a few kilometres.

Day-to-day riding, to town and back - maybe 5 or 6 Km each way - causes no problems unless the day is very warm. But I cannot trust the bike to keep going for any longer journey than that.

1/ According to the Temperature gauge, it is NOT overheating: the gauge stays down at the first mark, quarter warm. Once, and once only, on a very hot day the gauge climbed to the halfway mark. On that occasion the engine wasn't 'happy' but it didn't quit before I got home.

2/ The ignition coil has 'failed' (Thai diagnosis) and has been replaced 3 times this year.
3/ Often, the ignition-switch is quite hot to the touch after just a few Km.

I wonder if the "whatever is the modern version of contact-breaker" is closed for too long, allowing excess current through the ignition system, causing overheated coil etc etc?

4/ The carburetor has been stripped-and-cleaned more times than I can count. This has no lasting effect after the first five Km, so I don't think that's the problem.

5/ Honda's local dealer replaced the spark-plug yesterday - I got a whole 2 Km before the engine cut-out. Needless to say, I returned to Honda and asked them to find the problem.

6/ The bike is about ten-years-old and has about 32,500 Km on the clock.

Can anyone help to throw some light on this, please?

Geoff



I never hear of an ignition switch getting hot, so maybe pay some extra attention to that, and look if everything is still in correct order... A electrical short, with some fuses replaced by screws or nails will seriously damage your electrical system. (It will not be the first time that I found to strong or even nails and screws in the fusebox, they replace them if they often break and are to incompetent, dumb, or to lazy to look for the cause of the fuse burning every time)

Also examine the exhaust system every year, with a two-stroke it's possible that carbon and partly burned oil form a blockade in the exhaust system.

   

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By: Flying Squirrel (offline)  Sunday, 17 October 2010 @ 10:54 PM ICT  

Geoff,

Generally if it cuts out suddenly it is electrical. If it stops slowly it is fuel related.

Carry a spare spark plug. Next time it cuts out pull off the spark plug lead, plug in the spare plug, rest the plug on something metal on the engine kick it over and see if you have a spark.

No spark it is electrical. Have spark it is fuel related.

Does Phantom have a side stand switch to prevent starting with stand down? I don't think my NSR 150RR did but....maybe it is malfunctioning.
Is there a neutral switch and a clutch switch. If not in neutral do you have to pull in the clutch to start? Again maybe not but....
Does the bike have an inline fuel filter between the tank and the carburettor? Sometimes they get plugged and exhibit intermittent symptoms.

Also see PM.

   

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By: Geoff P (offline)  Monday, 18 October 2010 @ 05:51 AM ICT  

Thanks for your replies.
@Thaidesign
No, there are no nails where fuses aught to be but whether the fuses are correct size is anyone's guess. I have only had the bike for one year of its ten-years life, and haven't been able to find a manual for it.

@Flying Squirrel
I agree with your points and have "enjoyed" both types of symptoms.
As for fuel problems, the carburetor was stripped and cleaned just the day before my latest problems, so I don't think that is a cause.

The Honda shop put in a new plug - the old one was very soggy with oil - and I set off with "great joy". But just two (2) kilometres later, the engine died. I waited a couple of minutes then re-started, turned around and headed back to the Honda shop with the engine running very raggedly. It cut just as I arrived at the shop.

Being more than a bit "old fashioned", I understand ignition systems in terms of "Coil, Points and Condenser" but I have no clue what constitutes an "electronic" ignition.
In the "good old days", if the points-gap was too small, current flowed through the coil for too long, the timing was wrong and the spark poor. It also caused the coil and its low-tension wiring to get hotter than designed. At the extreme the coil could burn out. Checking for it was simply done with a feeler-gauge to set the points gap.

Could something similar happen - the coil getting too much current for too long - happen with electronic ignition?

Geoff

   

Geoff P


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By: Flying Squirrel (offline)  Monday, 18 October 2010 @ 11:03 PM ICT  

Geoff,

Have you checked the auto lube system. Does the mark on the quadrant line up with the mark on the crankcase? You did say the old plug was "soggy" . Are you using the correct plug? B9 somethin EC. Can't remember exactly.

You still haven't told us if it is the key ignition switch or the kill switch which is hot.

Do you ride slowly or with some spirit. Two strokes need to be "ridden" not simply used.

I'm still with electrical fault or fuel filter. Unplug and re connect every connector you can find on the harness. Check every wire that is near any part of the frame for abrasion. Does it or did it ever have an alarm system? My NSR did and it wouldn't start one day. Until I found the alarm system was grounding the ignition system, even though it was turned off.

Nobody yet answered the side stand or neutral switch question.

   

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By: Matty (offline)  Monday, 18 October 2010 @ 11:46 PM ICT  

Years ago ( many ) I had a Suzuki PE 250cc , ( 2 stroke Enduro bike ) which i rode for fun on the weekends in the bush ( forrest ). During the week i used it to ride to work, a trip of about 6-8 kilometers each way. ( 10min )
About every 2 weeks, the same thing would happen. It would just cut out for no apparent reason, If i left it a few minutes to cool down, it would re-start again (kick start) but would cut out again after a few minutes.
I discovered the spark plug was breaking down, and so always carried a spare new spark plug. When the bike stopped i would change the spark plug. Only problem was the new spark plugs would only last between 3 and 5 weeks before they too broke down and needed to be changed.

The fix was to buy the best quality spark plug i could find, one with a fine pointy centre electrode, not a round flat electrode.
So my suggestion is to buy a new IRRIDIUM spark plug, or something similar, one where the spark jumps from the centre electrode to the outer metal housing ( non adjustable gap ) rather than one with the tab above the elecrode ( settable gap style )

My bike problem was in the late 1980s there is far better spark plugs available now than the one that solved my problem.
Buy the best plug you can afford, whack it in, see how your bike goes then.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Matt...

   

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By: Anonymous: Geoff ()  Tuesday, 19 October 2010 @ 08:59 AM ICT  

Phew, so much to think about that my brain hurts ...

@ Flying Squirrel
The main key-switch gets hot, not the kill-switch.
The bike doesn't have a stand-switch nor a neutral-switch so far as I can tell - I have occasionally kicked-started her, in gear with the clutch hauled in.

As for security systems, she doesn't have any now but I really don't know about the past. There are various dangly bits of wiring near the main fuse holder, though the ends look to be neatly 'clipped' rather than frayed as though they had fallen off. Could be the remains of a security system, I don't know.

"Have you checked the auto lube system. Does the mark on the quadrant line up with the mark on the crankcase? " Confused Crikey, what's that?

My driving certainly has some "spirit", though as an "older person" I like to think I temper my speed surges with enough sense to stay alive. I've only been driving for 48 years (mostly cars), the last ten years have been on little Honda 'step-through' machines until I bought the Phantom a year ago.

The fuel consumption, by the way, varies between about 26 and 20 km per litre and has averaged 23.59 (66 miles per gallon) since last December. It seems thirsty to me, especially compared to my girlfriend's Scoopy, which returns about 200 mpg. On the other hand she drives rather more sedately than I do!

@ Matty
My driving routine sounds pretty much like yours, ten minutes to town, do some shopping - stop, start, stop, start - then home along an open road. The drive home is often quite "spirited" to vent the frustrations of town driving.

I try to make sure to use the recommended plug - "B9 something EC" to quote Flying Squirrel (it's written on a label on the tank-top) - and Champion brand for quality and that seems to last quite well. Your suggestion of an Irridium plug reminded me of about 45 years ago when a friend of my father brought along some aircraft-engine plugs for my pre-war side-valve car. They were later marketed as "Ring of Fire", I believe.

Meantime, I've put her into the Honda dealers with the request to "Fix It". At the last visit, they are ordering a new "control box", which at 4000 baht makes my wallet wince. I sincerely hope it works!

Cheers,

Geoff

By: Flying Squirrel (offline)  Tuesday, 19 October 2010 @ 09:52 AM ICT  

Geoff,

Your suggestion of an Irridium plug reminded me of about 45 years ago when a friend of my father brought along some aircraft-engine plugs for my pre-war side-valve car.



Something about nothing. A loong time ago I used to build 1172 side valve Ford race engines.

   

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By: Anonymous: geoff p ()  Tuesday, 19 October 2010 @ 11:19 AM ICT  

Waaaay too big Big Grin

My car was a pre-war Morris 8, 800cc side-valve. Definately in the "Rolls Canardly" class (Rolls downhill, can-hardly get up them) Used to use reverse gear to get up steep hills, 'cos that was a lower gear than first.

Ahhh, them were the days.

Geoff

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